From Gumbyy@tamu.edu Wed Aug 27 22:02:14 1997
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:41:19 -1000
From: Marc 
To: "Dr. Driving" 
Subject: Re: USA Today "Road Rage" article

On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:21:12 -0600, in rec.autos.driving you wrote:

>Hey, Marc, as Dr. Driving, I'd like to give you an award for competent
>and supportive driving!!  I mean it -- as long as you described yourself
>accurately and are philosophically behind it.  Yes, I'd give you a
>nomination for a medal. 

That really is the way I drive.  That really is my philosophy on driving.

>My students have difficulty achieving your
>ideals.  It takes them a complete driving personality makeover, with
>months and years of effort.

It *should* take years to fix it.  It took years for them to get it wrong.
They were taught (through modeling) how they should drive, and have learned
the way they are to handle situations.  That is why I think that many teens
have poor accident records.  They start driving with no experience in the
unsafe manner that their parents do, except their parents have 20+ years of
driving experience that saves them when they do something stupid.

I didn't understand at the time, but my mother, who holds a degree in
psychology and has worked with children in a professional capacity for more
than 35 years, understood what an impression an example made, and that
children do what they see, not what they are told (when the two are in
conflict).  She repeatedly told me I was going to be a safe driver, told me
how a safe driver drove, and then did it herself.  The one law she broke
(and breaks) with regularity is the one law I break with regularity.

>You are unusual, Marc, recognize it.

I do.  There are exceptions to every rule, and though they are unusual,
they do exist.  I believe I fit the description of an aggressive driver, as
well as being courteous.

>Most drivers have trouble being
>courteous, not following too close, obeying all signals, signalling turns
>and lane changes, always trying to be safe and competent and not be in
>anybody's way.	That's ideal!  So, please stop giving "aggressive
>drivers" a good name by claiming that you're one of them.  Instead you're
>a supportive, non-aggressive driver.

I'm a driver that is so good that I know when I'm tired, and pull over in
rest stops to nap before going on, and I have no problem doing this when
I'm tired (I drove to Alaska from Washington D.C. with minimal help from my
sister, she drove ~300 of the 6000 miles).  I'm so good of a driver that my
mother rented a car in her name on a trip, and then had me drive it the
entire time.  Being under 25, I was not eligible to rent it, but a recent
court decision found that unconstitutional, so it may change soon, but that
is a little off topic.  She would rather me illegally drive in a strange
crowded city (our first trip to visit my sister in D.C.) than for her to
legally drive the car.  I think that speaks volumes about her confidence in
my driving, and the amount I drove from D.C. to AK with my sister shows
her confidence in my driving (as there were others that offered, but due to
space she could only take one, so she asked me).

I will agree that it is unusual for someone to be aggressive, polite and
courteous, but I think it is possible.

>I was interviewed today by a USA Today reporter who is working on another
>story on aggressive drivers.  I explained my view to her and sent her to
>my http:// www.aloha.net/~dyc/testimony.html Congressional Testimony
>piece.

I watched a little of the Congressional hearings on that, but I didn't see
you.  I didn't have time to watch it all, though.

>She asked me if I knew any really aggressive drivers who are
>proud of it so she can interview one of these individuals.  I said just
>go read this NG (among others) to get plenty of drivers who call
>themselves aggressive and are proud of it.  Well, I'm not sure she knows
>how to get here, to read us all, but if you're interested, she said she'd
>like a phone call.  Her name is Maria Puente, USA Today, Washington,
>D.C., 800-872-3410 ext. 6521.  Are any one of you it??	A road rager?? 
>Hope not....

I haven't made it in a paper that big, but I was interviewed for the local
paper for the local hearing by the TxDOT on speed limits.  I was the only
student that attended in a group that was the biggest group that attended
the meeting in the entire state, including communities much bigger than
ours.  I was later approached by an engineer for the TxDOT why thanked me
for my comments, as I was the only person that spoke in support of the
TxDOT, and the most factually correct (I had to correct someone who said
that it was illegal to pull on the shoulder to let someone pass, and I
referred to the TxDOT's own information about drivers in the faster half
having less accidents than those in the slower half).


Maybe I should go to my local community college and start up a course on
traffic psychology (as a bigger university probably wouldn't be as
interested in someone with only an undergraduate degree teaching a class).
Then, when we are both published traffic experts, I can go surf the North
Shore and claim it as a business expense, as long as I dropped by to say hi
to you :-).
Marc

Subject:      Road Rage (was Re: Guns)
From:         Pre 
Date:         1997/08/14
Message-Id:   <5sunl7$ci1$1@rockcake.bt.net>
Newsgroups:   alt.bitterness
[More Headers]

Joan wrote:

> In Belgium, it is a lot of people's hobby to be an asshole
> behind the wheel.  And it's a cultural thing, because in USA, everyone
> is nice.

Everyone in the UK used to be nice but now (according the the tabloids
at least) there's an increasingly large section of society that suffer
from 'road rage' which basically means getting irate in your car because,
let's face it, nobody here has in-car air conditioning and the polution
on the roads is getting horrendous so you can't open a window and
the traffic jams are getting worse every day. People are starting
to get so irate they jump out of the car and beat each
other to death with car-jacks or follow some woman for miles
down the motorway then force her off the road and hospitalise
her for cutting some guy up.

Lovely.

Thing is, people seem to think that 'road rage' somehow justifies
this stuff. Oh, it's understandable then if she didn't let him
pull out of that junction. Pathetic.

There was a case in the papers here recently which caught my eye
coz it stared a woman with the same name as this girl I used to
know. She stood accused of murdering her blokey but she was claiming
that some guys in a car had gawn over the top with this road-rage
thing and stabbed him to death then done a runner.

They found her guilty but I'm not so sure. She didn't look like
she had the wit to invent any kind of coverup story at all.

> When someone tailgates you, I think most americans wouldn't put up
> with it, they would slam on their brakes.  That's whay I do anyway.
> But when someone tailgates a Belgian, they bow down to the service
> of the tailgater and get out of their way.

I haven't driven a car in ages and I have no intention of bothering
to buy one now. You have to be sober all the time to drive legally
and safely and besides, I was never a very good driver anyway, I
kept reversing into lamposts and things. Anyway, I used to get
pretty worried about people on the road becasue they all seemed
so fucking uptight all the while. Shouting and raging at each
other. Whenever someone tailgated me I let them pass as soon as
I could. They wanna risk their own lives, fine, but they're sure
not gonna end up killing me too. It's a laziness thing too, who
can be arsed with all the hassle, just let 'em pass and go bother
someone else.

Subject:      Re: Road Rage
From:         "Thurisaz" 
Date:         1997/08/05
Message-Id:   <01bca1f6$65c705e0$168493cf@default>
Newsgroups:   alt.revenge
[More Headers]

: No doubt you will be missed.  And don't let the door hit you on the
: ass on the way out.

This is amazing!
FYI: I've never had any trouble on the road. Either I'm lucky or all that
media "road rage" hype is just that -- hype. I wonder if I would have
gotten this many replies (and, this much EMOTION) had I not used the 5
o'clock news buzzword of the year "Road Rage". 

[original message]
> What's a good way to deal with anger at the wheel? How about when someone
> cuts you off or starts to rage on you? Please send some advice that does
> not involve killing others.

Well I did get some killing solutions anyway, but mostly just unrelated
complaining. Wonderful! So was there something particular provocative about
this message? Was it the word "rage" or the lack of an anecdote? Or do the
participating posters have a lot of steam to let off?

Subject:      Re: "Road Rage & SSRI's
From:         MP 
Date:         1997/08/26
Message-Id:   <3403ad17.53d7@mindspring.com>
Newsgroups:   alt.support.depression
[More Headers]

meerkat wrote:
> 
> > oh come on... i can't believe that every angry driver on the
> > road is on SSRIs. road rage has existed in densely populated
> > areas of the U.S. for years; it's just lately that it's
> > become widespread enough to make the cover of US News and
> > World Report. The first time i drove to work (from Lawrence
> > to Burlington, Mass. in 1977) i was rear-ended by some guy
> > in a jeep who was angry that there was so much traffic on
> > I-95. there were a lot of professional road-ragers in
> > houston in the early 70s, too.
> >
> 
> > melissa
> 
> "Road rage" has been the rage lately as a subject for Congressional
> investigation, insurance company lobbying, news, and 'news'. Some say
> that this is a new problem increasing at an alarming rate, others say
> that's the view of people with their own political agenda. Whichever it
> is, it got me to thinking a while back about Road Rage and ASD.
> 
> My own opinion, and that of some of the more newsworthy than I am, is
> that the acting out of these frustrations and aggressions on the road is
> at least partly due to the dehumanizing effect of us being cocooned in
> our private environments on wheels. To wit: those aren't really other
> ~people~ in those other machines, they're just mechanical obstacles in
> our way... using up ~our~ space! Anyways, so we tend to not view the
> others as people, as human like ourselves. Of course, this is always a
> popular tactic during wartime... you've got to believe that the enemy is
> somehow sub-human and certainly on a lower moral plane than ourselves. So
> we permit ourselves to let go and give 'em hell! That article that
> Melissa mentioned related the story of two drivers pulling off the road
> to duke it out... and much to their surprise they were neighbors, and the
> fellow who was relating the incident explained that as he recognized the
> person his whole attitude changed, he was more calm and settled... and
> probably had a more realistic view.
> 
> So, in my view how does this apply to ASD? [oh, Uncle Fester just shouted
> up to me to make it very clear that this is about "road rage" and _not_
> "'roid rage", which can be caused by overdosing on steroids or a very bad
> case of hemorrhoids]
> 
> Well, when we get into these little contretemps on occasion around here,
> those warm little breezes that blow through, it's easy to disregard the
> fact that there is a living, feeling, sentient person on the other end of
> our flames. We don't see them, we don't see their pain, their tears,
> their anguish. All we see is our own frustration and aggrieved status:
> the great wrongs that were done to ~us~! And we write up our flaming
> response, marveling at our wit and sense of justice (well, at least I
> do :). Never thinking about the others, that perhaps their meaning was
> totally different than our interpretation.
> 
> Maybe we could take a new view on ASD about "ASD-rage" when some of the
> regulars get into it.
> 
> cheers, Tom

excellent point! (and thanks for not letting me kill
another thread.)
melissa, yielding right-of-way

Subject:      Re: USA Today "Road Rage" article
From:         jcwx@earth.execpc.com (John Weir)
Date:         1997/08/28
Message-Id:   <5u3qkc$pjd$1@earth.execpc.com>
Newsgroups:   rec.autos.driving
[More Headers]

Dr. Driving (dyc@drdriving.org) wrote:

(flushed the rest to show exactly the situation.)

: > >> "Dr. Driving"  said:
: > >
: > >I've just had the pleasure of being driven around East Anglia and was
: > >fascinated by a particular stretch of road that had four public
: > >footpaths crossing it within about a mile or so.
: +++++

: It's fascinating what happens as messages cumulate in quoting each other,
: when people leave the wrong headers on.  As in the Above.  Dr. Driving
: never said that paragraph.  Alex merely neglected to delete the
: appropriate headers as to who said what.

Third person now, Leon?  

: I think it's important to delete the headers that don't apply.        These
: messages are archived, as you know, and search engines turn these false
: drops.        Later people looking at these messages get the wrong message!

Anyone that knows squat about how to attribute the credit for articles
written will certainly be able to figure out you didn't write what is
shown above.  

You can relax, Leon, your character is intact.

John

Subject:      Re: Accidents and Trucks
From:         real.address@sig.file
Date:         1997/08/18
Message-Id:   <33f85605.0@wltss01.nerc-wallingford.ac.uk>
Newsgroups:   phl.transportation,rec.autos.driving,dc.driving,uk.transport
[More Headers]

jcwx@earth.execpc.com (JW) wrote:

>Dr. Driving (dyc@drdriving.org) wrote:

>: We need a social-cultural transformation, a change in norms of
>: aggressiveness behind the wheel.  We need to take charge with car
>: commercials and movies and tell advertisers and sponsors that we care
>: about depicting and encouraging bad driving behavior on the screen. 
>: Maybe we need an additional rating on movies -- not just Adult language,
>: Violence, Nudity, Sex -- but also BD for Bad Driving Behavior!

>You aren't serious, are you?  What, do we have to rate _everything_
>for the lowest common denominator?  Don't you think that most people
>are capable of figuring this out for themselves, and don't need a
>rating system to spell it out for them?  

There are already guidelines to prevent car advertisers making an
issue of the performance of their cars. And some people sad enough to
complain when they feel the guidelines have been broken.

Steve

Subject:      Re: WEW 7057 - The Cause Of Road Rage
From:         C Everett Koop 
Date:         1997/08/18
Message-Id:   <33f91319.773a@nih.gov>
Newsgroups:   soc.culture.malaysia,dc.driving,rec.autos,driving
[More Headers]

Dr. Driving wrote:
> 
 
> Jesting about road rage isn't recommended!  Because it encourages
> fantasies of violence.  These are bad for two reasons.  First, it
> strengthens and maintains the road rage tendency within all of us,
> allowing it to break into open violence or open forms of hostility at
> unpredictable moments, leading you to acts you'll regret in your normal
> state, but will have to deal with the negative consequences.
> 
> Second, jesting about road rage weakens our moral conscience.  Violence
> becomes more acceptable to contemplate.  It corrupts spiritually because
> we're not shocked by the idea of torturing another human being.
> 
> It's best to discuss this seriously -- how we train ourselves to re-gain
> control over our emotions behind the wheel.  It's not easy....
> 

Well Doc, if someone did me wrong can't I retaliate?